#### Subjects: [[Great Tree|The Great Tree]], [[Erdtree|The Erdtree]], [[Crucible|The Crucible]] #### Important Comment: Hi all, pinning this comment from user @baltoy : Hi! So, the previous video caused a lot of controversy and discussion in the comment section, and while there were some people who took the whole matter way too seriously and started to heating up a bit too much, there was also some valid criticism and thoughtful debate I feel it needs to be addressed by both parts. I think we were able to reach some interesting conclusions, so let’s look them up. Originally, I was very skeptical on the whole Greattree topic. We all know pretty well that the precise term is a bit shady when it comes to localization, but I think this wasn’t the main issue I and many others had. The very tepid response some of us had in regard of the “Greattree”, I believe, originated from the fact this concept was used a lot in older theories that conceived this tree as pre-existing the Elden Ring as a whole, or as a total separate entity from the current Erdtree. I think this pre-existing bias prevented many of us to listening carefully at what was been said, as the general chronology provided by the video is actually pretty solid based on the information the game provides. For a moment, let’s just not use the infamous word “Greattree” and let’s try to put the current reconstruction in order. Of course, here I’m interpreting what TA said during the series, so if I’m misinterpreting something let me know! 1) The Elden Beast was sent on the Lands Between and it became the Elden Ring - the ring being the first event in the timeline is confirmed by the depiction on the Erdtree’s door, which has the Elden Ring below both the trees iconography, and by Hyetta’s JPN dialogue on the One Great fracturing. For further reference, SmoughTown timeline video (which is also in collaboration with TA btw, give it a shot) addresses this pretty well. 2) From the Elden Ring, a tree sprouted. We know a tree which drew its power from the Elden Ring existed since the most ancient of times, both from the depiction on the Erdtree’s door and the many tree iconographies scattered through the the Ancient Dynasty ruins. Again, I’m not naming this entity in any particular way. 3) This is the most uncertain point in the timeline, but it’s possible this tree main body was cut at some point - leaving only its stump and the large root apparatus below. This is hinted by the Crucible depictions during the age of Godfrey see: Siluria’s Tree, many statues in Leyndell, which evoke the process of a plant resprouting from its stomp. 4) From that resprouting stomp, the Erdtree emerged. Now, this is really important to understand: this does not imply by any means the original tree just died there, and a totally unrelated new one was born from the Elden Ring. The original tree regrew from what was left of it, and what came next was a “genetically” identical entity from the previous one. This was the point that had been made bringing up the Ship of Theseus paradox: although entirely new in its composition, the Erdtree and the “previous tree” are the same exact being. So, to people who strongly disagreed with the original video: do you have objections regarding the actual chronology of events now that I didn’t mention any “Greattree”, or it was a mere nomenclature problem? I’m genuinely asking this, because it took me a while to realize that, for me, it was the latter. But now, let’s be really obnoxious and talk about this nomenclature issue. After discussing this with others in the comment section, I believe the “Greattree” isn’t really the main issue here. We did acknowledge the precise word could be a localization artifact and not be originally intended by the creative team, but in the lack of better terms isn’t it fair to use a convenient word to express an existing concept? I don’t see problems in that. The real, main problem I have with the current reconstruction is different: that is, placing the Crucible that far in timeline as the “directly pre-Golden Order period”. Don’t get me wrong: Siluria’s Tree depicts an undeniable reality, which is the Crucible was a “sprouting stump” at the age of Godfrey. But is it really just that? There are some clues that point out to a different reality. First of all: the Elden Stars is an Erdtree Incantation, and when used it shows a Crucible/Prime Erdtree sigil. According to its description, “this legendary incantation is the most ancient of those that derive from the Erdtree”, which includes all the Aspects of the Crucible. As this incantation is explicitly associated with the arrival of the Elden Beast, it means the Crucible sigil is one of the most primordial magic symbols to ever be created. Again, this is coherent on what we’ve discovered so far: the “previous tree” and the Erdtree are de facto the same being, and they all draws from the same source of power from their incantations - which is, the Elden Ring. Second of all: the Crucible is described as “primordial”. This doesn’t just refer to the “primordial form of the Erdtree”, as the Crucible Feather Talisman is addresses in its description as “a vestige of the crucible of primordial life”. The Crucible is explicitly tied to life in its first stages, and indeed its various incantations allows the caster to manifest ancient traits, like the ones of Ancient Dragons. Third of all: the Crucible sigil doesn’t depict a simple system of roots. On the upper part, you can clearly see leaves and branches. This could only mean one thing: the Crucible was, at some point, conceived as a full-grown tree too. So, how do we harmonize all this information with the previous reconstruction? I think the most plausible solution is the following: the Crucible isn’t just defined as the transitory state between the “previous tree” and the Erdtree, but it’s an umbrella term that describes every state of the “Elden Ring tree” that predate the Erdtree itself. As we’ve established before, the previous tree is, de facto, genetically the same tree as the Erdtree. Then it does make sense that the Crucible, “the Erdtree in its primordial form”, would encompass this entity too. To be completely clear, this doesn’t mean previous cultures didn’t name the particular stage of the tree they were worshipping in a specific way. Maybe the Ancient Dynasty really called their sacred plant “Greattree”, or something else entirely. But, during the Golden Order, I deeply believe such difference was not present: there was the “Golden Tree” (how the Erdtree is called in JPN), and there was “all of those things before”, aka the Crucible. This also helps to explain better a couple of other things. According to the Gilded Greatshield description - and you can also see this casting a Crucible incantation - the Crucible was tinged in red: “The red tinge in the gold coat mirrors the primordial matter that became the Erdtree. The color of homeward yearning.” And what’s the color of the Root Resin the localized text claims to be of the Greattree? Red! There is also the case of the Tree-And-Beast Surcoat which was brought in the comment section - which depicts a “previous tree” type of iconography while the description claims to be of the Erdtree. While this could be just an artistic license of the tailor to fit the image in a narrow tapestry, I’d like to point out the description is also very specific in calling the tree a “distant Erdtree”. And if, for the Golden Order, the Crucible was everything that came before the Erdtree, the discrepancy is actually subtlety referenced by the game text. I think this is a fair reconstruction that covers some loose ends that weren’t addressed previously, but if the Crucible can be conceived as a full-grown tree too, there’s a new question to answer: what marked the transition between the Crucible and the Erdtree? I believe the only real difference we can draw between the two, is that the Erdtree lost the red tinged which characterized the Crucible. How could this have happened? Well, we actually have example of the Erdtree changing in color: adding a new Rune to the Elden Ring, and modifying the current order, makes the Erdtree shift in shade as you can see in the Age Of The Duskborn, Age Of Order and Blessing Of Despair Endings. So, could’ve the Crucible lost its red tinge as a result of a modification of the Elden Ring? I really think it’s likely: Marika did twist the previous order banishing the Rune of Death. And, as we discover in Maliketh boss-fight, Destined Death is red - the same color that was lost in the transition between the Crucible and the Erdtree (the “Golden Tree”, which is to say, the tree of the Golden Order). #video #elden_ring #tarnished_archaeologist